Curse

Kakumei · Jun 28, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

I'm hoping they do something new with the Great Destroyer. And I think I know what it's going to be. You don't win.

I really hope this is what happens.

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2) In Chrono Trigger, Lavos' causes time aberrations as he sucks the planet's life force. You see the world after he has used it, and you find a time where magic was real.

While Chrono Trigger was a wonderful game, its story was pretty much the most cliche-ridden thing ever.

Plague · Jun 28, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Games don't have to follow that sort of plot path. Stories are often about subtlety. Just rescuing a princess, saving the world or even protecting your family isn't an idea that will save a game's plot.

For instance, let's say GW2 is about you, an everyman, being given a ring to carry into the enemy's land and destroy in the place of its creation, to stop an ancient evil from being reborn. On paper it doesn't sound like a good idea. But does it sound familiar? Lord of the Rings, for instance, wasn't good because of the plot synopsis, it was what it was due to the way it was presented.

Any one of the stories in Guild Wars COULD have been good with the right presentation. But Guild Wars is often incapable of decent presentation. And I don't see ANet ever trying to change that. It doesn't matter if in Eye of the North or Guild Wars 2, we save a princess or blow up the Death Star, or die in the end or learn that we're the villain's father - it's not going to be a good story unless ANet puts a lot of effort into the way the story is presented.

The lore in Guild Wars, the background information, isn't that bad. It's often pointless filler information, but it's not bad. The bottom line is that whomever is in charge of presenting the story in the game doesn't do a very good job of it.

A decent writer can take a plot synopsis like, "An Emperor's bodyguard is fooled by an imprisoned, fallen god into betraying his own master, out of fear of losing his own life, so that the god might set events in motion that will lead to his freedom, centuries later," into a pretty good story. It just didn't happen.

freekedoutfish · Jun 28, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

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Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Of course it's all the same thing, dude. It's how it's told and what happens inbetween that matters.

Yeah but the OP is on about "upping the anti", but what he really wants is just a decent storyline. Something we had in prophercies, but we didnt in factions in nightfall!

"Upping the Anti" to me, means making it harder, not making better story lines.

But with GW:EN being released, the idea is that it will finally give a climax to propherices and the entire game. Hopefully it will give the anti he wants.

Traveller · Jun 28, 2007, 11:47 AM // 11:47

GW should have a Ultima IV - type structure, where you must achieve a number of virtues to complete the game. No final boss, no linear plotline. Of course, this would mean that 95% of the players would not finish and would most likely be stuck on compassion or honor.

Kakumei · Jun 28, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Yeah but the OP is on about "upping the anti", but what he really wants is just a decent storyline. Something we had in prophercies, but we didnt in factions in nightfall!

"Upping the Anti" to me, means making it harder, not making better story lines.

But with GW:EN being released, the idea is that it will finally give a climax to propherices and the entire game. Hopefully it will give the anti he wants.

The word is "ante".

icymanipulator · Jun 28, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

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Originally Posted by Personette

I don't get the people who think the Prophecies storyline is the best. I think it is by far the worst. We just blunder around helping all the bad guys. Consider:
(snip)

We are talking hypothetical story here, but Rurik probably made the correct decision in fleeing Ascalon. Adelbern wanted to fully retake Rin and I would assume Drascir at some point with a severely diminished military. You did little to nothing to combat the Charr in Prophecies...mostly guerrilla raids while a considerable force remained.

The White Mantle were in line with your goals at the time, repel the Charr invasion. Khilbron probably has the same corruption Shiro had in Factions. Essentially good people who were twisted by Abaddon into doing his bidding. Destroying Arah and Orr was probably not his intention but it stopped the Charr...stopped everything down there really.

Going to the desert was necessary for ascension, meeting Glint, and finding out about the Flameseeker Prophecies. The Shining Blade were going to fight the White Mantle no matter what our characters did and it seems like this was in the interest of the greater good. i.e. stay and die or live and save the world. The Prophecies themselves refer to the opening of the door of Komalie and the death of the Flameseeker, exactly what happened. The Lich character probably assumed your toon was the flameseeker rather than himself and that unchecked he would have an virtually unstoppable titan army from the Foundry of Failed Creations.

The Mursaat for all intensive purposes are wiped out. You did massive damage to their forces in the Southern Shiverpeaks and on the Ring of Fire. Anything that was left was under attack from the Titans that leaked through or from the Deldrimdor in the Shiverpeaks. Consider this story plot hole that needs fixing. Why the animosity between the Mursaat and the Titans/Lich? Wouldn't that imply the enemy of my enemy is my friend? Even stranger is the similarity in appearance between the Jade Armor and Abaddon. Maybe the Mursaat and the armor are apostates and would rather be worshiped by humans (White Mantle) than be the ones doing the worshiping (to Abaddon).

Comparing the depth of story and plot twists Prophecies is miles ahead of Nightfall. I stand by what I said, Kormir's role was far and away the most unrewarding aspect of the entire game. You do all of the work through 3 continents and she winds up as a deity. I felt absolutely nothing when she was taken captive, even hoping they killed her. Rurik on the other hand was a different story and Zombie Rurik was a great twist. If they absolutely had to do an NPC as the god of Truth it should have been someone from the Order of Whispers. Not some feel good PC garbage, yes I will say it, she was chosen intentionally due to socio-political climate.

Bryant Again · Jun 28, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Yeah but the OP is on about "upping the anti", but what he really wants is just a decent storyline. Something we had in prophercies, but we didnt in factions in nightfall!

"Upping the Anti" to me, means making it harder, not making better story lines.

Proceed to see post #idontremember:

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Originally Posted by Bryant Again

First off, the title for this thread was a little misleading. I thought it would be something about having to compete with the game business or something.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 28, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Your idea of the plot of a game pretty much listed a number of quests in Guild Wars that allow you to do pretty much what you're asking. That's fine. Go play all the quests.

Save the kingdom from an evil witch? Try Villany of Galrath. Save the villagers from the bandits? That's almost your first task in Nundu Bay. You even get a taste of it at the Tihark Orchard mission. There's a lot of small heroic things to be done in the quests and in some of the missions. Why not just do those?

If it really is going to be that tiring to you, nobody's going to force you to get GW:EN.

Bryant Again · Jun 28, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

If it really is going to be that tiring to you, nobody's going to force you to get GW:EN.

...Assuming it's something the OP doesn't like, which is not a safe assumption.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 28, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

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Originally Posted by Plague

...
Nightfall was just awful. I couldn't think up a more hackneyed plot, myself. The characters are dull, their backgrounds are uninvolving beyond some slight (VERY slight) romantic tension that doesn't really go anywhere, and that I don't care about... and the overall story is nearly the same storyline I saw in my first text RPG. On a personal note, I hate Kormir. I was actually mad when she fulfilled her "destiny." What a bothersome, tiring woman.
.....

I completly agree especially with the Kormir part. I hope the person responsible for this dribble, never writes stories ever again.
For me nightfalls story is a sequence of mistakes and holes, even worse than Neverwinternights official campaign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turaan Tolgerias

what annoyed me at the end of factions was when the envoy said "let us worry about shiro". So what did they do? Let shiro have a party with the lich and abaddon in the realm of torment.

Another bad part: With the player and Kuunvang being the only exception, the good guys and gods, don´t do anything. Why should I defend Lyssas temple, if she doesn´t give a shit?

icymanipulator · Jun 28, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

I figure its intended to be some sort of invisible hand...something along the lines of "if its done right it will seem as though they have done nothing at all". I suppose this is why Balthazar is locked in an eternal struggle in the FoW with Menzies and why Grenth's domain the UW is under siege from minions of Dhuum among other things. Laziness and incompetence you play through the story to resolve but get no reward aside from the satisfaction of completion. If they had a mission to kill Kormir in the DoA I'd be the first to sign up.

DirtyDirty · Jun 28, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Now that you mention it, I did enjoy Balder's Gate II because you could go evil and kill innocent people and merchants for fun. Being evil was a nice twist.

Traveller · Jun 28, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

I do wish that GW would have different storyline options for "good" and "evil" paths. (well, hoping for more of shades of grey than totally evil or totally goody-good, but still) It would also add tons of replayability to PvE campaigns, not to mention a fresh twist in the general RPG genre of "Group of heroes travel the world and in the end beat the evil boss for him/her/it to resurface later on".

I'm all for a grim ending to GW:EN with the players failing to stop the Destroyer. Now THAT would be a nice twist.

william1975 · Jun 28, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

I'd love to go evil lol, wouldn't it be nice if we could chose an eveil path instead of the same old one every time for 10 professions

Retribution X · Jun 29, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

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Originally Posted by Traveller

I'm all for a grim ending to GW:EN with the players failing to stop the Destroyer. Now THAT would be a nice twist.

You mean, Join the destroyer?

*insert random demonic laughter here*

It's be fun killing that damned king doric who helped assassinate my favorite prince....

Plague · Jun 29, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I don't care a thing about being good or evil if the presentation continues to be this poor. Being evil won't mean much of anything if all that changes is a couple of text dialogue boxes.

Kale Ironfist · Jun 29, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

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Originally Posted by Retribution X

You mean, Join the destroyer?

*insert random demonic laughter here*

It's be fun killing that damned king doric who helped assassinate my favorite prince....

Pft, that's weak. No, what you do is kill the destroyer. Then, as everyone proceeds to celebrate your victory over it, YOU become the next destroyer and proceed to kill them.

It's win/win for everybody! I think... *insert maniacal laughter here*

Vagrant · Jun 29, 2007, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

I don't care a thing about being good or evil if the presentation continues to be this poor. Being evil won't mean much of anything if all that changes is a couple of text dialogue boxes.

Honestly. It can be the most generic storyline ever. As long as the characters are interesting, and there's humor involved, I really don't care about the plot line. But Guild Wars (particularly Nightfall) has a cliche plot, with overall boring characters, romances and potential villains not expanded upon, and key characters not seeing their full potential as part of the story.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 29, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

And on top of that Nightfalls has the worst ending.

Spartan Link · Jun 29, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

mmm -_- i thought we as the player DIDN'T save the world of guild wars three times, in my point of view the world was only saved once and thats from abbadon.
but i did hope he world escape and turn the world upside down and inside out i mean killing him while he was still chained up does sucked.

in faction and prophicies it was only the contient tyria and cantha that was saved defeating the lich and shiro doesn't mean saving the world it was more like saving kingdoms from their certain doom and i doubt they would cause much of a trouble to the world even if they lived.

and the lich was really really the crappiest end game boss but then again thats the same for the other bosses when you know how to defeat them......